As Diana Robertson and Cait Lamberton settle in for a video conversation in August, the outgoing and incoming vice deans of the Undergraduate Division share an observation they both discovered in their early days as administrators: how busy the office is in summertime. Six years ago, Robertson left the legal studies and business ethics department to become vice dean as Lamberton joined Wharton’s marketing faculty. They reversed roles this July, with Robertson returning to the classroom and Lamberton leading the world’s top-ranked undergrad business program. In a warm and wide-ranging discussion, edited here for length and clarity, the two educators addressed challenges facing students today, the role of business education in society, and the value of alumni perspectives.
Wharton Magazine: Diana, can you sum up the transformation that you’ve seen in the Undergraduate Division as it’s responded to what’s happening around it — at Wharton, at Penn, and in the world?
Diana Robertson: I started in July of 2019, and then, of course, COVID hit us in March of 2020. It was such an extraordinary time. There’s been a lot of change, but I also think there’s tremendous consistency in the Wharton Undergraduate Division itself. We have a staff of talented, dedicated people. We continue to be number one in U.S. News & World Report rankings. What has changed is the pre-professionalism that’s happening at every school; financial services and consulting are recruiting sophomores. The students have changed, too. I’m about to go back into the classroom and teach business ethics. Some students are so afraid of being canceled now, they won’t say what they really think. We talk endlessly as faculty about what’s happening in the classroom with AI. And I think all of our attention spans have been strained by reliance on our phones.
Cait Lamberton: It’s interesting you say that, Diana, because a few years ago, we lengthened classes by 10 minutes. I think it does put pressure on us as professors to understand how we best educate in a very noisy environment. You’re going to have a great time back in the classroom, though.
DR: I’ve always loved it. I don’t think that’s going to change.
WM: Cait, why take on this role?
CL: I don’t like sleeping. [Both laugh.] I think if you’re given the opportunity to contribute in a meaningful way to an organization that is already the best in the world, there are very few reasons to turn away from that opportunity. This is a completely new set of challenges, and we are people who want to learn. It’s the thing that makes us happiest. On a broader scale, higher education faces fundamental questions about its value that haven’t been asked in a long time. Business schools have a long tradition of making sure that what students learn in the classroom is applied in the world in a way that contributes value.
DR: Something that we need to convey to our students is the responsibility of what they are going to do with that education — to give them ways to think about what their values are and how those values fit with their futures. These are the students who are going to prove the principle that higher education is worth it. They are future business and community leaders, and they are the ones who have to make the case for us.
CL: One thing that’s such an asset in this process is the interaction with our alumni. Their willingness to come back and share their stories with our students offers us a way forward that is somewhat unique among institutions of our type. We’re going to harness the power of business to solve the problems incident to our society. This is exactly our brand.
DR: Our alumni, especially our Wharton Undergraduate Executive Board, have been engaged and supportive.
CL: That’s something in talking with the board that has become very clear. Your Wharton journey doesn’t end at graduation. In some senses, it’s really just started.
WM: Diana, you emphasized a focus on student health and well-being. Where have you seen improvements in that area, and what do you think still needs attention?
DR: The critical point is sophomore year, when recruiting starts and they wonder, “Am I really going to make it here?” There are a lot of ways to ease stress, but how can you get to the source of what’s making our students so stressed? That’s where our career readiness programs help allay some anxiety. And then a focus on resiliency is so important. Some of our students face their first setbacks in life at Wharton.
WM: That feels like a good segue, Cait, into your early thoughts about priorities and goals.
CL: I’ve spent a lot of the past year trying to understand from a broader perspective what undergraduate business school does. What I see is that undergraduate business-school education is a bridge between the fast-moving circle of science and innovation and the society that has the problems that need to be solved by that innovation. We’re training our students to understand which innovations are worthy of investment and helping translate that value into society. My first job is to understand how we’re already meeting this need so well and why it works. Then the second is to understand strategically where we have more opportunities.
DR: You’re off to a great start.
WM: Diana, is there any advice about the vice dean position that you could share?
DR: It’s a steep learning curve. As academics, we work individually, to a great extent. The real learning for me was to be a team member and understand that I didn’t have to do everything. When I started out, I thought I did. Cait, I think you understand that better than I did.
CL: It’s been wonderful to not only walk out of a meeting knowing more than when I walked in, which is not surprising, but also to walk out with more energy. One of the best pieces of advice Diana gave me early on was to listen to various constituencies. If you’ve spent most of your career being the one who’s talking, it’s a bit of a gear switch, but it’s the right place to start.
WM: On the topic of AI, how are your students balancing their excitement for what’s possible with concerns for how the technology may impact their first jobs or long-term careers?
DR: There’s so much ambiguity. Students are confused. It’s an inflection point for all of us. What is the future of the workplace? Will financial services and consulting be taken over by AI in some ways? So then you think, what is Wharton’s role in all of this? First, we must articulate our concerns, and as a professor of business ethics, I am mindful of the importance of using AI responsibly. Then we need to use it to best advantage in the classroom. We’re teaching critical thinking skills, and some are concerned that AI will prevail, and students will not learn those skills. The challenge is to incorporate AI in our teaching of critical thinking. AI is not going away. It will be an important part of what we do from now on.
CL: I just read [professor and Wharton Generative AI Labs co-director] Ethan Mollick’s post where he pointed out that a few months ago, AI couldn’t count the number of r’s in the word “strawberry.” Today, you can ask it to carry out incredibly complicated requests. For a while, we thought the real intelligence was going to be how well you can articulate your question. In fact, newer versions can anticipate and refine your question for you without much prompting at all. So to think about how AI will affect us in even the medium term is almost impossible, because we have no idea what it will be.
It’s something that I spent a lot of time reflecting on this summer because I took a class about thinking machines, the history of people’s reflection on what thinking is, and whether a machine can do it. I agree with Diana — we always need to figure out how to use the technology to help students. I think it’s also going to push us to this more profound question about the nature of human capabilities and how we best support those. One thing that seems worthy of prioritization is human soft skills: Someone still has to stand up in front of a room and make a pitch; someone still has to reach out and make the connection with a company or organization. The ability to form and sustain human relationships will become really important. The analog may become a luxury, and being really good at the analog is going to be the thing that differentiates you.
WM: I’m curious about your thoughts on the impact for students and alumni of seeing women in leadership positions at the School.
CL: The most interesting conversation that I’ve had about women in leadership was actually today, with an alumni board member. She was challenging me to think about how we support our undergraduate alums 10 or 15 years out, when many women face pressures ranging from lifestyle changes to career pivots. She said we can’t stop sharing the stories about what happens after five years. There’s a long journey ahead. There’s an opportunity to connect with alumnae as they navigate those changes.
DR: Such an interesting point. When I started at Wharton, it felt very male. Students would say, “You’re the only woman professor I’ve had.” We’ve done a fantastic job of changing that image. It’s not just perception — it’s reality.
Published as “Leadership in Motion” in the Fall/Winter 2025 issue of Wharton Magazine.
